INTERVIEW Marisa MacIsaac, Rule of Law Officer at the US Embassy to Romania
Diana Buzoianu: Thank you for your time and patience to answer our questions, Ms. Marisa MacIsaac. We are honored to be interviewing you today.
Marisa MacIsaac: Thank you for the invitation.
D.B.: First of all, would you elaborate on the position that you occupy as a Rule of Law Officer at the United States of America Embassy to Romania?
M.M.: My job is a twofold. One, I inform Washington on what is happening in Romania in relation to laws, the judiciary, Parliament, elections, human rights and politics. Two, I coordinate Embassy activities within our anti-corruption strategy, in partnership with Romanians.
Our strategy focuses on asset confiscation, transparency initiatives such as Open Government Partnership, and outreach to youth on topics such as preventing corruption and participating in civic life.
D.B.: What are your thoughts on working in Romania, considering that you have worked in numerous different countries and you have experience from completely different backgrounds?
M.M.: When people hear that I work on corruption, the response is usually “Well, you certainly have a lot of tough work to do!”. In reality, it’s easy to work here because we have a great partnership with Romanians. There are enough motivated and skilled Romanians who know what they need to do, which makes it simple for me and my colleagues to work with them.
Educating children about the law is one of the most important things to do in Romania and in every democracy.
D.B.: A few months ago, Romania and the U.S. celebrated 135 years of diplomatic relations. Can you please tell us about the evolution that has been made throughout all these years with respect to our partnership?
M.M.: Our partnership does not exist just on paper; it involves cooperation each and every day on matters that affect both of our countries’ security, democracy and prosperity. Most obviously, through NATO, we work together to provide collective security to our allies. In the law enforcement arena, our police and prosecutors work together on cases which affect both countries. We’re both members of the Open Government Partnership Steering Committee and, through that, we’re learning from each other how to make our governments more open and accountable to citizens. We’re building our people-to-people and economic ties at all levels.
D.B.: As a Rule of Law Officer, one of the topics that you follow is the judiciary system. Romania, having a civil law system, and the U.S., having a common law system, hold completely different principles at their core. Therefore, in Romania, students can take classes on different aspects of American law. What do you think about this possibility offered to students?
M.M.: Given that these days most crime is trans-national, it is vitally important for Romanians and Americans to have a basic understanding of each other’s legal systems. We have a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty with Romania, which means that evidence collected in Romania can be used in a U.S. court, and vice versa. Judges thus need to know, for example, what the standard of evidence is in both countries, in order to trust the evidence. As a student, it’s to your benefit to have knowledge of multiple legal systems.
If Romania systematically adopts civic education throughout the country, it will soon have a population that actively participates in democracy and is better able to follow and implement laws.
D.B.: Talking about possibilities to understand the law offered to young people, one of ABC Juridic’s latest projects is a Legal education guide for elementary school. Can you tell us a few words on what do you think about this initiative?
M.M.: Educating children about the law is one of the most important things to do in Romania and in every democracy. In the U.S., we teach children about their rights and responsibilities, and how the government works from the age of five. Starting at a young age builds a culture of rule-following and belief in the democratic system.
One cannot be expected to follow the law unless one knows what it is. We are encouraged that ABC Juridic and others in Romania are paying more and more attention to educating children about the law and thinking seriously about civic education in general.
If Romania systematically adopts civic education throughout the country, it will soon have a population that actively participates in democracy and is better able to follow and implement laws.
The American educational method makes law approachable for the average citizen, which means not using legalese language.
D.B.: On the same note, on the 19th of January, you have moderated a workshop called “American Approaches to Teaching the Constitution”, which took place at the American Corner within the National Library of Romania, being organized by the U.S. Embassy to Bucharest. What were the main activities and how did the attendees react to them?
M.M.: I worked with some Romanians to develop some open-source, American-style lesson plans on the rights and responsibilities contained in the Romanian Constitution. Many of these rights are the same as or similar to the rights and responsibilities found in the U.S. Constitution. During this workshop, in which 300 people (mostly teachers) have so far participated, I provide examples of how the U.S. teach the Constitution, and then teach a lesson on freedom of speech using political cartoons.
Overwhelmingly, I have received a positive response to the workshops. Teachers do see the value in teaching Constitutional rights to students. However, many teachers say it will be difficult to teach such a topic, because it is hard for them to explain the limits of free speech. Additionally, some teachers report that they are not allowed to speak about politics in their schools, which is actually a violation of the freedom of speech itself.
Some magistrates and lawyers have also attended the workshops and have a different reaction, because the American educational method makes law approachable for the average citizen, which means not using legalese language. This is a challenge for anyone, in both countries, with formal legal training.
Romanian legal practitioners have proven themselves to be capable of complex investigations and prosecutions as well as flexible in their ability to adapt to constantly changing laws.
D.B.: In the last few years, there has been a tendency among students to take internships at the Parliament or Government with the scope of empowering and educating young people. Are there such opportunities at the U.S. Embassy?
M.M.: Exposing young people to their government and different professions is considered very important in the United States. The Department of State offers internships to young Americans both in Washington and at our Embassies. The U.S. Embassy in Bucharest occasionally offers internships to Romanian citizens, which are advertised on our website.
D.B.: The current President of Romania has recently appointed as one of its presidential counsels a specialist in Constitutional law. Is this an important step that must be taken in a state to ensure that the constitutional principles are upheld?
M.M.: The Embassy does not comment on President Iohannis’ choice of advisors. Most high-level public officials do rely on legal experts to help them make legal and ethical decisions. Questions of constitutionality are generally decided in the courts — in our case through the U.S. Supreme Court, in Romania through the Constitutional Court.
D.B.: In the last American presidential campaigns, the U.S. have made important steps on the matter of non-discrimination. This year’s campaigns surround a similar case, as one of the most debated candidate is a woman running for president – Hillary Clinton. In your opinion, is Romania also taking the steps towards non-discrimination in the public institutions?
M.M.: Romania has an anti-discrimination law in place and also a state institution to handle anti-discrimination cases. Regular training on anti-discrimination, ethics and cyber security would further advance professionalism in the public administration.
Civil servants in the United States are required to complete annual online training, and occasional in person training, on these topics. Regular training helps remind us of what the law actually says and what our ethical obligations are so that we can behave appropriately in the workplace.
Court cases take a long time in Romania, and courts and prosecutors are largely lacking digital tools to make their work easier.
D.B.: In 2007, Romania adhered to the European Union. Has there been an evolution since that year in areas related to the legal system that you have observed?
M.M.: The Romanian legal system has undergone a real transformation in the last ten years. Foremost, Romania adopted four new codes (civil, civil procedure, criminal and criminal procedure) in a short amount of time – something that is almost unimaginable to American legal practitioners. Romanian legal practitioners have proven themselves to be capable of complex investigations and prosecutions as well as flexible in their ability to adapt to constantly changing laws.
The types of cases can be quite complex, and Romania is now focused on implementing asset confiscation, which is a complex procedure that can be very effective in combatting and preventing serious and organized crime. Romanian legal practitioners have evolved into excellent partners for the United States. Of course, the evolution is not finished. Court cases take a long time in Romania, and courts and prosecutors are largely lacking digital tools to make their work easier.
Once you understand your rights and responsibilities, it will be easier for you to see how to make your government for the people, by the people and with the people.
D.B.: As we get closer to the end of this interview, which piece of advice do you have for the readers?
M.M.: Read your Constitution! Constitutions provide the basis for your rights and responsibilities as a citizen. Once you understand your rights and responsibilities, it will be easier for you to see how to make your government for the people, by the people and with the people.
D.B.: What do you think about the ABC Juridic Project and how can we improve it?
M.M.: The ABC Juridic project is a great source of information for citizens and organizations wanting to learn more about the law. By more widely promoting it, via social media, events or perhaps by going to schools, its resources will have a bigger impact and contribute to the wider discourse on civic education and democracy in Romania.
D.B.: Thank you for your time, Ms. Marisa MacIsaac. We are looking forward to hearing from you again.
M.M.: Thank you and good luck to the ABC Juridic Project.
